considerations...
...I know I rarely if ever post two blogs in a day...but a myspace conversation with my friend Sjon has inspired me to repost it, because I think it's got a point or several.
I first posted links to Tim Fite, Pink Mountaintops and Casiotone For The Painfully Alone. To which he replied,
Not really in regards to what you've suggested, because I liked what I heard, but is it just me or is the world more intrigued by simplicity? Musically I mean. it just seems like more bands are coming out but their skills instrumentally are no match for their egos. it's like all you need is the right look and great networking skills and next thing you know they're the newest, most amazing shit! When i check a lot of bands, I always wonder, if these fuckers are making it, why the fuck am i not?!?! i mean, I've been playing since before my rave days, before a lot of these "great" bands even conceived the idea of playing guitar. I'm just fuming at the thought. BUT, there are a lot of really good bands out there, and as a guitarist myself, i listen even closer to other guitar players, and in the whole indie thing, the guitar playing is incredibly easy and it amazes me how it amazes others!
Bands that I think take it to the next level: Stereolab, mars Volta, John Frusciante, Björk, Radiohead, Blonde Redhead, Autolux, Aphex Twin, Chemical Brothers, LCD Soundsystem, N.E.R.D. , and that's all i can think of off the top of my head. There's more though...
Anyways, I'll bitch to someone else.
Good points, all around. I responded,
sjon
I think there is a difference between simplicity and minimalism. Sometimes the catchiness of a song isn't about how technical the instrumentation is...you mentioned Stereolab - I don't question the talent for a second, but their music is really formulaic, no?
Having not much to work with is sometimes a benefit - as in, not too much talent, not too many instruments - a guy and his casios can make a record and sell 10,000 copies because it's different on that plane than anything else. it might not be technically proficient, but in the end it's "THE SONG" that gets you attention.
when I was in toronto, I saw this 'celebrity interview' between Tony Wilson (manager of Joy Division, New Order, godfather of the rave movement) and Seymour Stein (president Sire Records - signed Madonna, Ramones, Depeche Mode, among others)...and both were talking about the change in SOUND, that there are so many LESS HITS these days...lasting ones, with those eternal riffs and bass lines (a la Satisfaction, Love will tear us apart, etc)...artists are promoted with a shelf life -it's a sad fact, but only the fans can change that by demanding better music.
those bands you mentioned DO push it ahead, I agree, but all of those are doing do using a formula that they've established as popular to their fans...you don't see Stereolab or Blonde Redhead risking their status by putting out some bizzare concept album...but you see artists like Matmos or Tussle or Pink Mountaintops or Destroyer responding to the push in music towards new sounds, new hooks and themes, answering a call, persay.
to which he responded,
I fully understand minimalism for sure. After all, I am a fan of John Frusciante's guitar playing, the reigning king of guitar minimalism. Just like you said, upon your conversation with Tony Wilson and Seymour Stein, a lot of music lacks the timeless riffs/basslines/etc. I just hate when the minimalism lacks that maximum effect, like when it gets lost in being lacklustre. I heard that Frusciante actually steps it up on the new RHCP double album because he feels his guitar playing is too minimal. I feel there are a lot of bands that honestly, minus the vocals, can be mistaken for eachother. There is an indie sound that has, as you say, made its own way of being formulaic. That dual guitar, (which a great guitar player can do on his own), that cowbell, those synths (which will never surpass its achievements in the 80's), and that dance beat (that tries to recapture what it did to the dancefloors of warehouses in the raves of the 90's). Don't get me wrong, I've heard plenty of songs that have these elements that I enjoy, and I love the mashing of sounds/eras, but as I've said, take out the vocals, and all these bands can be mistaken for eachother.
And I also want to say that Beck is a GENIUS.
Sjon is awesome. Check his CHOONS, yes?
I first posted links to Tim Fite, Pink Mountaintops and Casiotone For The Painfully Alone. To which he replied,
Not really in regards to what you've suggested, because I liked what I heard, but is it just me or is the world more intrigued by simplicity? Musically I mean. it just seems like more bands are coming out but their skills instrumentally are no match for their egos. it's like all you need is the right look and great networking skills and next thing you know they're the newest, most amazing shit! When i check a lot of bands, I always wonder, if these fuckers are making it, why the fuck am i not?!?! i mean, I've been playing since before my rave days, before a lot of these "great" bands even conceived the idea of playing guitar. I'm just fuming at the thought. BUT, there are a lot of really good bands out there, and as a guitarist myself, i listen even closer to other guitar players, and in the whole indie thing, the guitar playing is incredibly easy and it amazes me how it amazes others!
Bands that I think take it to the next level: Stereolab, mars Volta, John Frusciante, Björk, Radiohead, Blonde Redhead, Autolux, Aphex Twin, Chemical Brothers, LCD Soundsystem, N.E.R.D. , and that's all i can think of off the top of my head. There's more though...
Anyways, I'll bitch to someone else.
Good points, all around. I responded,
sjon
I think there is a difference between simplicity and minimalism. Sometimes the catchiness of a song isn't about how technical the instrumentation is...you mentioned Stereolab - I don't question the talent for a second, but their music is really formulaic, no?
Having not much to work with is sometimes a benefit - as in, not too much talent, not too many instruments - a guy and his casios can make a record and sell 10,000 copies because it's different on that plane than anything else. it might not be technically proficient, but in the end it's "THE SONG" that gets you attention.
when I was in toronto, I saw this 'celebrity interview' between Tony Wilson (manager of Joy Division, New Order, godfather of the rave movement) and Seymour Stein (president Sire Records - signed Madonna, Ramones, Depeche Mode, among others)...and both were talking about the change in SOUND, that there are so many LESS HITS these days...lasting ones, with those eternal riffs and bass lines (a la Satisfaction, Love will tear us apart, etc)...artists are promoted with a shelf life -it's a sad fact, but only the fans can change that by demanding better music.
those bands you mentioned DO push it ahead, I agree, but all of those are doing do using a formula that they've established as popular to their fans...you don't see Stereolab or Blonde Redhead risking their status by putting out some bizzare concept album...but you see artists like Matmos or Tussle or Pink Mountaintops or Destroyer responding to the push in music towards new sounds, new hooks and themes, answering a call, persay.
to which he responded,
I fully understand minimalism for sure. After all, I am a fan of John Frusciante's guitar playing, the reigning king of guitar minimalism. Just like you said, upon your conversation with Tony Wilson and Seymour Stein, a lot of music lacks the timeless riffs/basslines/etc. I just hate when the minimalism lacks that maximum effect, like when it gets lost in being lacklustre. I heard that Frusciante actually steps it up on the new RHCP double album because he feels his guitar playing is too minimal. I feel there are a lot of bands that honestly, minus the vocals, can be mistaken for eachother. There is an indie sound that has, as you say, made its own way of being formulaic. That dual guitar, (which a great guitar player can do on his own), that cowbell, those synths (which will never surpass its achievements in the 80's), and that dance beat (that tries to recapture what it did to the dancefloors of warehouses in the raves of the 90's). Don't get me wrong, I've heard plenty of songs that have these elements that I enjoy, and I love the mashing of sounds/eras, but as I've said, take out the vocals, and all these bands can be mistaken for eachother.
And I also want to say that Beck is a GENIUS.
Sjon is awesome. Check his CHOONS, yes?
posted by Eli at 10:06 AM
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